gmane.emacs.viewmail

observation of mismatch for customization buffer for variablevm-auto-folder-alist

Alan — 2013-05-23T15:46:35

I noted recently that the example given for defining variable
"vm-auto-folder-alist" in the Info node "(vm) Defined Folders" does not
conform to the "(defcustom vm-auto-folder-alist" form in "vm-vars.el".  It
causes the display of the complaint "mismatch" when "(customize-variable
(quote vm-virtual-folder-alist))" is used.

I've managed to ignore this mismatch for quite some time, but finally
decided to investigate.  I even created matching paths and folder names (and
folder content) to be able to use the example "asis" and do some testing.

That example is:

(setq vm-virtual-folder-alist
      '(
;; start virtual folder definition
("virtual-folder-name"
 (("/path/to/folder" "/path/to/folder2")
  (header "foo")
  (header "bar")
  )
 (("/path/to/folder3" "/path/to/folder4")
  (and (header "baz") (header "woof"))
  )
 )
;; end of virtual folder definition
        )
      )

Its equivalent, which satisfies the "(defcustom vm-auto-folder-alist" form, is:

Value: (("virtual-folder-name"
  (("/path/to/f

Re: Are there plans to release 8.2?

John Stoffel — 2013-05-22T18:09:10

Uday> Göran Uddeborg writes:

Uday> Unfortunately, it does make quite a bit of difference.  Once it is an
Uday> official release, it goes into Linux distributions, and people get it by
Uday> doing routine updates.  If things break for them, it would be quite
Uday> annoying.

Uday> Things were quite different when people made conscious decision to upgrade.
Uday> But Linux has changed all that.

Uday> The earliest date I can think of for the official release of 8.2.0 is the
Uday> end of summer.  I lost a window of opportunity last summer and haven't had
Uday> much time to devote to VM afterwards.

Uday> We will have another beta release before the official release.

Can you push out a Beta release now, with all the patches you have
accumulated?  Release early and release often is a good mantra to
have.  We've all been stuck in a holding pattern lately, and it's not
fun.

Personally, I've been thinking that it's time to finally drop VM and
move to some other mail reader with good IMAP support, probably mutt.

Re: Are there plans to release 8.2?

Uday Reddy — 2013-05-20T23:01:22


Unfortunately, it does make quite a bit of difference.  Once it is an
official release, it goes into Linux distributions, and people get it by
doing routine updates.  If things break for them, it would be quite
annoying.

Things were quite different when people made conscious decision to upgrade.
But Linux has changed all that.

The earliest date I can think of for the official release of 8.2.0 is the
end of summer.  I lost a window of opportunity last summer and haven't had
much time to devote to VM afterwards.

We will have another beta release before the official release.

Cheers,
Uday

Are there plans to release 8.2?

Göran Uddeborg — 2013-05-14T10:11:36

I've been waiting to upgrade the Fedora package of VM until 8.2 is
declared released.  After all, 8.2.0b is officially a beta, right?
But there are some issues with waiting, most recently illustrated by
the bug report https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=960295

Do you have plans to make an official 8.2.0.  Or should I package
8.2.0b anyway.  True, that "officially released" stamp doesn't make
that much difference in reality.  But it would feel a bit better. :-)

el-get recipe for vm?

Perry E. Metzger — 2013-04-26T19:03:40

Does anyone have an el-get recipe for vm? (For those who don't know
about el-get, see https://github.com/dimitri/el-get )

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

John Stoffel — 2013-04-03T20:35:47

Uday> Sorry, John.  You haven't yet answere my question:

Uday> Mind you that I can't reproduce this behaviour because I don't
Uday> have an IMAP server that behaves this way.  So, you need to tell
Uday> me exactly what commands you are issuing to VM, and what
Uday> behaviour you are getting, including what is getting printed in
Uday> the *Messages* buffer.

I'll try to do so.  I've been working to see if I can reproduce this
at will, but I'm not sure I've found the proper pattern of commands.  

I have noticed that external emails to Exchange (from outside $WORK)
tend to cause problems at points.  Esp if I've filed them, then
deleted them.  But internal emails don't seem to show this issue.

I'll keep poking at this and do what I can to get a reproduceable test
case.

John

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

Uday S Reddy — 2013-04-03T20:06:05

Sorry, John.  You haven't yet answere my question:


Mind you that I can't reproduce this behaviour because I don't have an IMAP
server that behaves this way.  So, you need to tell me exactly what commands
you are issuing to VM, and what behaviour you are getting, including what is
getting printed in the *Messages* buffer.

Cheers,
Uday

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

John Stoffel — 2013-04-03T19:28:36

Once I logged out, I got:

  * BYE Microsoft Exchange Server 2010 IMAP4 server signing off.

so it's a possible issue with MS Exchange 2010.  I wonder if maybe you
force it to use IMAP4v1 if that would make a difference?

From my googling around, it looks like MS Exchange 2010 doesn't
support any flags other than the ones it supports.  So if VM doesn't
see \* as one of the supported flags, we can't use them.

   a4 select inbox
   * 484 EXISTS
   * 0 RECENT
   * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft $MDNSent)
   * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft
   $MDNSent)] Permanent flags
   * OK [UNSEEN 389] Is the first unseen message

So it's the [PERMANENTFLAGS ....] that's killing us.  Can we patch VM
to just not use any flags other than those supported?  Or to just not
bother sending the command?

Looking at other VM saved traces, I wonder if the problem is that VM
tries to use the '(filed)' flag, and MS Exchange 2010 fails it.  But
if VM doesn't do any other IMAP commands, it

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

John Stoffel — 2013-04-03T19:00:48

Uday> John Stoffel writes:

Uday> The IMAP standard (RFC 3501) says:

Uday>    59) It is not an error for the client to store a flag that is not in
Uday>    the PERMANENTFLAGS list; however, the server will either ignore the
Uday>    change or make the change in the session only.

Uday> So, unfortunately, your Exchange server is not adhering to the
Uday> standard.  Please do complain to whoever is running your
Uday> Exchange server.

Sounds like it's an Exchange problem then.  Oh well... time to bitch
at MS for not supporting this properly.

Uday> All that I can do is to make VM resilient so that it carries on
Uday> regardless of the error messages.  So, what happens after these
Uday> error messages arise?  Does VM break in some way?

Yeah, it breaks because I can't sync up and save my email buffer
properly without running 'vm-imap-synchronize' to get it to push my
local changes back up to the Exchange server.

All I get when I telnet to the IMAP port is:

  OK The Microsoft Exchange IMAP4 service is ready.

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

Uday S Reddy — 2013-04-03T17:39:42


The IMAP standard (RFC 3501) says:

   59) It is not an error for the client to store a flag that is not in
   the PERMANENTFLAGS list; however, the server will either ignore the
   change or make the change in the session only.

So, unfortunately, your Exchange server is not adhering to the standard.
Please do complain to whoever is running your Exchange server.

All that I can do is to make VM resilient so that it carries on regardless
of the error messages.  So, what happens after these error messages arise?
Does VM break in some way?

Cheers,
Uday

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

John Stoffel — 2013-04-02T18:02:37

Thanks for the quick reply, I really appreciate all you've done
supporting and extending VM for all these years.  I wish I was a
better elisp hacker, but I'm hopeless.  I'd be better in Perl or PHP
or even C for that matter.   

Uday> Yeah, VM seems to be ignoring the fact that this IMAP server
Uday> can't store custom flags.  I will fix it, soon I hope.

If you can point me at the code, maybe I could try to poke at it a
little bit, or at least get some ideas.  And of course I'm happy to
run tests if you have any patches for me to try.

Uday> By the way, vm-visit-imap-folder is the right thing to use.  No need to
Uday> switch to spool files.

Uday> Cheers,
Uday> Uday


Uday> John Stoffel writes:

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

Uday S Reddy — 2013-04-02T17:22:25

Yeah, VM seems to be ignoring the fact that this IMAP server can't store
custom flags.  I will fix it, soon I hope.

By the way, vm-visit-imap-folder is the right thing to use.  No need to
switch to spool files.

Cheers,
Uday


John Stoffel writes:

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

John Stoffel — 2013-04-02T16:52:34

John> I'm still using vm-visit-imap-folder from 8.2.0b inside 23.1.1 on
John> x86_64 CentOS to read my eamil from Microsoft Exchange (probably 2010,
John> not sure).  But right now I occasionally run into problems where I
John> can't seem to get new email.  Looking the saved trace log I see:

John> I hate to follow up so quickly, but I managed to do
John> 'vm-imap-synchronize' which completed though it had 12 errors.  This
John> then let me get the new emails.  

John> It would be great if we could get the general code base more robust to
John> imap handling, or at least more in tune with each other.

John> Do you have any plans to cut a new release of VM someday?  Please?
John> Pretty please?  Even if it's just 8.2.0c that would be a help.

A little bit more information.  The problem seems to be that when I
save a message locally, not on the imap server, so that the status is
'read filed' then it has tons of problems because that status flag
doesn't work on the imap server, since I don't have any folders o

Re: VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

John Stoffel — 2013-04-02T16:40:06

John> I'm still using vm-visit-imap-folder from 8.2.0b inside 23.1.1 on
John> x86_64 CentOS to read my eamil from Microsoft Exchange (probably 2010,
John> not sure).  But right now I occasionally run into problems where I
John> can't seem to get new email.  Looking the saved trace log I see:

I hate to follow up so quickly, but I managed to do
'vm-imap-synchronize' which completed though it had 12 errors.  This
then let me get the new emails.  

It would be great if we could get the general code base more robust to
imap handling, or at least more in tune with each other.

Do you have any plans to cut a new release of VM someday?  Please?
Pretty please?  Even if it's just 8.2.0c that would be a help.

John

VM BAD Command Argument Error. 11

John Stoffel — 2013-04-02T16:33:14

Hi Uday,

I'm still using vm-visit-imap-folder from 8.2.0b inside 23.1.1 on
x86_64 CentOS to read my eamil from Microsoft Exchange (probably 2010,
not sure).  But right now I occasionally run into problems where I
can't seem to get new email.  Looking the saved trace log I see:

    Starting IMAP session Tue Apr  2 12:21:44 2013
    -- connecting to exmail1.taec.toshiba.com:143
    * OK The Microsoft Exchange IMAP4 service is ready.
    -- connected for general operation
    VM CAPABILITY
    * CAPABILITY IMAP4 IMAP4rev1 AUTH=NTLM AUTH=GSSAPI AUTH=PLAIN STARTTLS
    UIDPLUS CHILDREN IDLE NAMESPACE LITERAL+
    VM OK CAPABILITY completed.
    VM LOGIN <parameters omitted>
    VM OK LOGIN completed.
    VM SELECT "inbox"
    * 543 EXISTS
    * 0 RECENT
    * FLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft $MDNSent)
    * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Seen \Answered \Flagged \Deleted \Draft
    $MDNSent)] Permanent flags
    * OK [UNSEEN 437] Is the first unseen message
    * OK [UIDVALIDITY 5840] UIDVALIDITY value

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Re: vm-visit-imap-folder problem in 8.2.0b

Uday Reddy — 2013-02-05T14:17:03


Oh, I didn't realize that you were expecting it to ask for a password
*before* you have even specified an IMAP folder.  It won't.  You will need
to specify which IMAP folder you are trying to access so that it knows what
password to ask.

And, the IMAP folder has to be specifed in the format account:mailbox.

If you are just trying to get to your default INBOX, then please set
vm-primary-inbox.  Then M-x vm is all that you need to type in.

Cheers,
Uday

Re: vm-visit-imap-folder problem in 8.2.0b

John Stoffel — 2013-02-04T17:37:45

Uday> John Stoffel writes:

Uday> You probably need to hit `g' (vm-get-new-mail) for VM to access the server.  

That works once I'm in the folder and have successfully
authenticated.  But if I start up, and do NOT have my imap folder
accessed at all, then doing M-x vm-visit-imap-folder doesn't ask for my
password at all.  I have to do M-x vm-list-imap-folders, then it asks
me interactively.  

Uday> Please check the *Messages* buffer to see if there were any errors.  

Will do.  I'll do a fresh start:

- fired up emacs.
- C-x C-m to start vm, goes into my old INBOX which is still my
  default.
- M-x vm-visit-imap-folder
  - it asks "Visit IMAP folder:" in the minibuffer.
    - hitting the tab key builds a completion list, but never shows me
      anything.
    - hmm, typing 'ex<tab>' doesthen complete and now asks for my
      password.  Curious...
    - but I enter my password, and it comes back with:
      "Visit IMAP folder: exmail1:"
    - hitting tab doesn't get me anywhere, nor does typing 'in<tab>'.

Re: vm-visit-imap-folder problem in 8.2.0b

Uday Reddy — 2013-02-04T15:19:24


You probably need to hit `g' (vm-get-new-mail) for VM to access the server.  

Please check the *Messages* buffer to see if there were any errors.  

(I recall I had some issues with defining what constitutes an "interactive"
use.  I have straightened them out now in the trunk.)

Cheers,
Uday

vm-visit-imap-folder problem in 8.2.0b

John Stoffel — 2013-02-04T14:27:01

Uday,

I've been starting to use IMAP for my mail now, though I haven't
updated my vm-spool-files setup yet to use IMAP as my main INBOX.
Haven't quite decided how I want that to work.  

So now when I startup VM and do 'vm-visit-imap-folder' it doesn't ask
me for my password, while 'vm-list-imap-folders' does.  So in a new
emacs/vm session, I have to first list the folders, then I can visit
my imap folder.

I have the following in my vm-imap-account-alist, which I think is
what I need.  Am I missing something?

    (setq vm-imap-expunge-after-retrieving nil)
    (setq vm-imap-account-alist
       '(
 ("imap-ssl:exmail1:993:*:login:stoffj:*" "exmail1")
)
    )

This is all on CentOS 6.2, GNU Emacs 23.1.1, vm 8.2.0b.  I cheerfully
admit I've been carrying forward most of the same .vm and .emacs
settings for years and years, only fixing things when they break, so
it could be that I'm doing something wrong somewhere.  

I do have (require 'vm-autoloads) in my .emacs, though 8.2.0b still
has the bug where

Re: Mainly: How do you use virtual folders everyday?andother questions

Arik Mitschang — 2013-02-01T10:29:50

 > > What is missing for me is a summary view of all folders.  Something
 > > that could show each folder and the number of unread messages similar
 > > to Outlook's summary (sorry! I shouldn't mention that product).  Seems
 > > like this could be some sort of speedbar integration.
 > 
 > VM actually has a "folders-summary" feature.  Unfortunately, it is tied to
 > something called "berkeley-db".  I never had berkeley-db and, so, never used
 > it.  Arik Mitschang has been working on decoupling the folders-summary from
 > berkeley-db.  Some of his work can be found in this branch:
 > 
 >   https://code.launchpad.net/~akwm/vm/folders-summary-experimental
 > 
 > Arik, are you online?

Yeah, I haven't worked on that in quite a while, but remember it
mostly working. I don't use the feature any more, but used to actually
keep it open in a third buffer (that, summary and preview). This was
handy since our telescope operations sent out regular status emails I
didn't want cluttering my inbox, but wanted to ensure the