gmane.comp.handhelds.palm.shadow

Re: Shadow on Tablets

Andy Macqueen — 2013-05-03T20:39:28

And as Yahoo buys out Astrid, looks like people are still looking for 
the perfect Android app, Jeff....

http://lifehacker.com/yahoo-acquires-to-do-app-astrid-hints-at-shutdown-but-486592419


Regards,
Andy

Re: Re: Shadow on Tablets

skeezix — 2013-04-30T19:04:31

# > # skeezix said the following on 4/2/2013 9:31 PM:
# > # > The tech I've been leveraging lets it be
# > # > developed on desktop, and runs out of the box on Windows and Linux (and
# > # > OSX, though a bit more pain there due to many of the recent 'rules'.)
# > # If you can, what tech are you leveraging? Always on the look out for tools that allow multiple platforms with as "little" effort as
# > # possible. Generally, all require "custom" UI for each platform to truly exploit their features and functionality.
# >
# > For one interesting bit .. 'kivy' framework; its young, and has
# > lots of edge issues.. but its somehow genius :)
# >
# Seems rather cool, but just cool. Not mature and while Android and iOS may be supreme at the moment, this toolkit does not really 
# encourage other platforms (aka Blackberry 10).
# 
# Why this over something like Adobe's AIR or QT (not sure who owns this now)?

So wait, you're criticising (er, a couple weeks ago :O) a 
non-mature technology for not being mature.. like

Re: Re: Shadow on Tablets

skeezix — 2013-04-30T18:59:05

# >For one interesting bit .. 'kivy' framework; its young, and has 
# >lots of edge issues.. but its somehow genius :)
# 
# Hm, interesting, so you would write the whole App in Python?

Probably, though of course there are concerns there (startup time 
is a couple seconds, and ease of disassembly, difficulty to tie into many 
APIs.) But yeah, python + some adaptor layers into various foreign APIs 
and such might be the way to go (at least it'd be more fun ;)

# In other news, did you see the 1 hour video made by Google aimed at
# Google Glass Developers? It would be a cool feature if one could
# search one's lists via Glasses once it ships to users.

I'm not keeping too abreast on GG; for inclusion in apps that I 
dream up or work on, its not a priority item; I'll wait for critical mass 
to be approaching before I concern myself with it :) (ie: I like to keep 
some APIs available and a plugin architecture of sorts, so adding 
viewports is part of the deal.. be they exports to web services, or RSS 
feeds

Re: Re: Shadow on Tablets

2013-04-09T16:20:45

skeezix said the following on 4/3/2013 7:09 PM:
Seems rather cool, but just cool. Not mature and while Android and iOS may be supreme at the moment, this toolkit does not really 
encourage other platforms (aka Blackberry 10).

Why this over something like Adobe's AIR or QT (not sure who owns this now)?

Jeffrey

Re: Re: Shadow on Tablets

Wolfram Kuss — 2013-04-09T16:09:19


Hm, interesting, so you would write the whole App in Python?

In other news, did you see the 1 hour video made by Google aimed at
Google Glass Developers? It would be a cool feature if one could
search one's lists via Glasses once it ships to users.


Bye bye,
Wolfram.

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

Wolfram Kuss — 2013-04-09T16:05:43


Of course. 
But I wanted to give a complete list of my requirements for you to see
how difficult it would be to create a version that people can use. 
Obviously, some other people will have different requirements.


Ah, cool.


Yes, also I think (without having looked deeply) that on Android there
are less similar programs than on IOS (f.e. CarbonFin).


Sounds good.


I am not sure this is important, but dont forget people that have a
hardware keyboard, for example a bluetooth one.


Yes. For example, the complete German press wrote about Evernote maybe
two weeks ago because a partnership with "Deutsche Telekom" was
announced. Also, both host a "code for us" event.


True to some extent.
OTOH in the Android marketplace there are categories like "new and
rising".
My feeling is the main aim of both Google and Apple is to have as many
Apps and Downloads as possible. 
My feeling is the main effect of the market structures is that there
is a big pressure on developers to keep the price very low and maybe
even

Re: Shadow on Tablets

fulldec — 2013-04-04T13:12:15

I like where this thought process is going. A bare bones version (a Shadow of its former self?) would probably be fine for me. I never took advantage, or needed, the really powerful stuff Shadow could do, but I used it a lot for lists, planning and organizing and outlining. 

Hierarchical lists that you can expand and collapse and getting a lot of text on a phone screen (I am nearsighted so that's ok) are important to me. The list apps I try sometimes only have 4 or 5 items on the screen!

The other hard rqmt for me is to have it on the iOS environment, phones, tablets and the Mac OS. 

Thanks for even considering the idea of a revived SP. 

Don

--- In shadow-discuss< at >yahoogroups.com, skeezix <skeezix< at >...> wrote:

Re: Re: Shadow on Tablets

skeezix — 2013-04-04T00:09:07

# skeezix said the following on 4/2/2013 9:31 PM:
# > The tech I've been leveraging lets it be
# > developed on desktop, and runs out of the box on Windows and Linux (and
# > OSX, though a bit more pain there due to many of the recent 'rules'.)
# If you can, what tech are you leveraging? Always on the look out for tools that allow multiple platforms with as "little" effort as 
# possible. Generally, all require "custom" UI for each platform to truly exploit their features and functionality.

For one interesting bit .. 'kivy' framework; its young, and has 
lots of edge issues.. but its somehow genius :)

jeff

--
If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, there would be no war.

Re: Re: Shadow on Tablets

2013-04-03T21:24:35

skeezix said the following on 4/2/2013 9:31 PM:
If you can, what tech are you leveraging? Always on the look out for tools that allow multiple platforms with as "little" effort as 
possible. Generally, all require "custom" UI for each platform to truly exploit their features and functionality.

Jeffrey

Re: Shadow on Tablets

Andy Macqueen — 2013-04-03T19:04:39

Another one watching and waiting ....

Re: Re: Shadow on Tablets

skeezix — 2013-04-03T02:31:06

# I said at one point that I would follow Shadow into whatever platform 
# you chose to support. Unfortunately, technology didn't let me wait, so I 
# am in the iOS world, since my wife and I are Mac addicts since 1986. My 
# older sons have Androids, though, which may be a better platform (I 
# DON'T like Apple's insistence on remote connectivity).

There's positives and negatives to all platforms; its good for the 
consumer that such nice alternatives exist.. they're all swooshy with high 
res screens; who'd have thought 10 years ago that PDAs of the near future 
would be quad core? :) 

But yes, I'm not at all a fan of Apple's policies or app-store 
designs that squish out the little guys, so on and so forth; at least 
they've so far maxe dout at a 30% cut, and dev tools are cheap-ish 
(assuming you want to get a Mac or Hackintosh.) (Remember the PalmGear 
days where it started at what.. 10-15% cut, and every few months/year 
another 5% woudl get chipped away until near the end they were hitting for 
6

Re: Shadow on Tablets

Neil Slater — 2013-04-01T15:00:17

Jeff:
I said at one point that I would follow Shadow into whatever platform you chose to support. Unfortunately, technology didn't let me wait, so I am in the iOS world, since my wife and I are Mac addicts since 1986. My older sons have Androids, though, which may be a better platform (I DON'T like Apple's insistence on remote connectivity).

You say you might work on a minimal replacement if we can get you excited. Jeff, we are sitting here, still excited ourselves about a piece of software that hasn't been updated in ten(?) years (couldn't find a date in the About screen), and that is still loved, still in use by some, and missed by most users. I'm sure your grandfather is proud of you, Jeff.

I have EverNote, and can't use it to great advantage because I don't have a desktop to sync it with. I have My Life Organized, but it turned out to be primarily a desktop PC program, and the Mac version has no manual... I have tried more than half a dozen outliners and ToDo lists, and NONE of them can equal my dying

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

skeezix — 2013-04-01T02:00:33

# - I would need to be able to convert my Shadow files and not loose
# major data. I would be willing to write a converter myself, but the
# new app would at least have to support "creation date" of notes.
# It would be nice to have fields like "tags" so we can keep that data
# from Shadowplan; For now the new app might ignore those field(s).

Conversion of Shadow to anything is pretty easy (at least for me, 
given its all my fault ;)

# - A search at least like Shadowplan. My lists are too big to handle
# without it.

gads, you're making me need to start a to-do list, and I'm not 
even commiting to anything yet ;)

# - A desktop partner would not be needed straight away. If, for example
# one can use the app on the PC by using Bluestack and there is hope of
# a desktop partner program later on, that would be enough for me.

My fiddling about was leveraging a cross platform toolkit, whereby 
the mobile app runs on desktop as well, or at least is mostly compatible.. 
so yeah, desktop + mobile; and if they

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

Wolfram Kuss — 2013-03-27T14:59:29


Probably many people want catchphrases like cloud, share, facebook
etc. 
But there are also people like me, for whom this is actualy a
disadvantage. I would rather have something like Shadowplan on Palm /
Windows PC.
If you target the second, probably smaller audience, you do not get
into competition with Evernote etc.

BTW - from reading (I have not used Evernote), the one thing I like
compared to ShadowPlan is that you can add files to notes (Pictures,
Videos, Audio etc). But that can miss in V1, and launch an external
viewer in V2.


Bye bye,
Wolfram.

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

Wolfram Kuss — 2013-03-27T14:38:30


For *me* it would need these in addition:

- I would need to be able to convert my Shadow files and not loose
major data. I would be willing to write a converter myself, but the
new app would at least have to support "creation date" of notes.
It would be nice to have fields like "tags" so we can keep that data
from Shadowplan; For now the new app might ignore those field(s).

- A search at least like Shadowplan. My lists are too big to handle
without it.

- A desktop partner would not be needed straight away. If, for example
one can use the app on the PC by using Bluestack and there is hope of
a desktop partner program later on, that would be enough for me.

- What you plan to write would run offline and would use unicode,
right?


I am not sure what inline-edit means.
The detailed detail-panel can be left off in a first version for me.


Unfortunately :-(.
The amount of money and press coverage something like Evernote gets is
really suprising and sad :-(


Bye bye,
Wolfram.

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

Anita Lewis — 2013-03-27T11:09:45

skeezix wrote, On 03/26/2013 09:33 PM:

That's for Apple stuff.  I don't have any of those.

Anita

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

Ray McDowell — 2013-03-27T02:43:12

Dear Jeff,

Remember Fields of Dreams. 

Build it and we will come. If not in droves, in fanatic shadowplan-loving cliques.

Whatever, thanks for one of the coolest, most functional palm applications ever invented. 

Ray McDowell




________________________________
 From: skeezix <skeezix< at >skeleton.org>
To: shadow-discuss< at >yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10
 

  
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013, skeezix wrote:

# Building a basic outliner that just stores as JSON or XML is not 

A year back I was fiddling around with ideas for the UI, to make 
it swift and interesting; I had some pretty neat ideas (not sure how 
they'd work in practice, but sounded good in my head.)

But if you just wanted a really basic guy that showed..

File picker screen (perhaps swipe left/right to get it)
- open file
- delete file
- new file

List screen
- button bar at bottom:
- new item
- new child item
- push up/down/left/right
- delete item
- tap to select entry

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

skeezix — 2013-03-27T01:40:08

# Building a basic outliner that just stores as JSON or XML is not 

A year back I was fiddling around with ideas for the UI, to make 
it swift and interesting; I had some pretty neat ideas (not sure how 
they'd work in practice, but sounded good in my head.)

But if you just wanted a really basic guy that showed..

File picker screen (perhaps swipe left/right to get it)
- open file
- delete file
- new file

List screen
- button bar at bottom:
- new item
- new child item
- push up/down/left/right
- delete item
- tap to select entry

The trick is editing; recall Shadow had inline-edit and also a 
more detailed detail-panel

Thats where it gets into a bit of work.

This woudl all be very basic, and styled after the decade-old Palm 
app idea (pretty lame.)

... doing it fancy, like I was thinking a year ago, is a tonne of 
work, and people like smooth flashy graphics and swooshy effects nowadays. 
I'm not an effects guy ..

jeff

--
If everyone would put barbecue sauce on their food, th

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

skeezix — 2013-03-27T01:33:12

# I use two programs and neither one is right.  One is Our Groceries.  I
# can make lists of things, but no outline and no notes.  The other is
# Evernote and that is way too much nonsense and is more like post-it
# notes.  Both of these programs sync, one to web only and Evernote to web

What about CarbonFin Outliner? I always thought he was spiritually 
similar to earlier Shadow .. trying to keep it tight; same sor tof icons 
sometimes, too :O

# and program on my Desktop.  I miss the outliner. I would be happy if I
# could just make an outline and transfer the outline file over to my
# computer and open it there.  That is how I used to "sync" Shadow,
# because I use Linux. So, for me, Shadow on Android producing a raw file
# that I can open with Shadow in Linux would be great.  I loved the
# outliner for planning.  For a simple grocery list anything works, but
# Shadow was nice for that too.  I do love my Google Nexus Tablet and
# admit it is much better than the Zire Palm and the OS is better, too.  I

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

Linda Hoffman — 2013-03-22T18:22:57

I had so much info stored up in my old Shadow files that I literally sat &
cried when my last Palm died & I didn't know what I was going to do. I do
still use Show on my Windows 7 desktop to access those files. But would
sure love to see the outliner come back in an Android version that would
sync with the desktop.

I use all kinds of different programs trying to get outlines/lists of what
I want. Now, I can't find my info since it is stored in so many places!

Andoid outliner that would sync with desktop is my vote.

Linda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: ShadowPlan for Blackberry 10

Anita Lewis — 2013-03-22T10:50:10

I use two programs and neither one is right.  One is Our Groceries.  I
can make lists of things, but no outline and no notes.  The other is
Evernote and that is way too much nonsense and is more like post-it
notes.  Both of these programs sync, one to web only and Evernote to web
and program on my Desktop.  I miss the outliner. I would be happy if I
could just make an outline and transfer the outline file over to my
computer and open it there.  That is how I used to "sync" Shadow,
because I use Linux. So, for me, Shadow on Android producing a raw file
that I can open with Shadow in Linux would be great.  I loved the
outliner for planning.  For a simple grocery list anything works, but
Shadow was nice for that too.  I do love my Google Nexus Tablet and
admit it is much better than the Zire Palm and the OS is better, too.  I
don't think Android is going away very soon, so maybe a nice outliner
would sell for Android.

Anita


skeezix wrote, On 03/21/2013 12:12 PM: