gmane.comp.audio.rosegarden.devel

Re: Rosegarden on OS X

David Tisdell — 2012-05-16T12:48:26

The other places to possibly look as to how communication with the sound
system was achieved in the port are MuseScore and Hydrogen. Right now
Ardour on Mac is Audio only oriented and Hydrogen and MuseScore are more
MIDI oriented. MuseScore and Hydrogen run on Linux, Windows and Mac OS.
Since I am not really a developer, if I am out to lunch on this, politely
tell me to keep quiet :-)

Dave
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Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Schindler Karl-Michael — 2012-05-16T11:13:10

Am 16.05.2012 um 11:08 schrieb Chris Cannam:


At least for men, the chance to become grumpy as time passes by is supposed to increase with intelligence [citation needed] ;-)

Michael.

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Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Richard Bown — 2012-05-16T09:18:28

Talking of progress - or lack of it.  I registered a Wordpress blog last week for a couple of us to play around with as an alternative to current website.  Would be nice to have Mac and Windows sections there - generally pull things together - however it looks a lot like neither me, Chris or Michael have any enthusiasm or time left for even that.   Anyone want to take this on and I'll add you as admins on this page too?  I know Brett expressed an interest and I think one or more too?

R
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Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Chris Cannam — 2012-05-16T09:08:21

On 16 May 2012 00:00, Schindler Karl-Michael
<karl-michael.schindler-S0/GAf8tV78< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Well, thank you for the work you've done so far -- even if the tricky
bit still lies ahead, it's good to know that the rest is looking like
it should be feasible. I hope I didn't come across as too grumpy in my
previous mail (I probably did, sorry).


Chris

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Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Chris Cannam — 2012-05-15T22:09:54

Well, the trouble is not with JACK as such -- it's the same on any
platform -- it's just that the JACK audio driver in Rosegarden was the
first and only audio driver written at the time, and it's entwined
with the ALSA driver (that preceded it as the first and only MIDI
driver) in rather unholy ways.

I maintain Sonic Visualiser (http://sonicvisualiser.org) for Linux,
OS/X and Windows, with both audio and MIDI support (though with far
more limited MIDI requirements than Rosegarden). That has all sorts of
possible audio and MIDI driver combinations, including JACK on Linux
or OS/X, or PortAudio anywhere -- but it's a simpler architecture with
less historical baggage than Rosegarden, and I've just never found the
time to do any comparable factoring in RG (and realistically I
probably never will).


Chris

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Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Brett McCoy — 2012-05-15T22:00:07

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Chris Cannam
<cannam-8XHTaEMpybawskZW6HU+u9vLeJWuRmrY< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:


Probably should take a look at how Ardour handles JACK on OSX, you
might be able to adapt some of those ideas.

Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Chris Cannam — 2012-05-15T21:56:12

On 15 May 2012 22:43, Schindler Karl-Michael
<karl-michael.schindler-S0/GAf8tV78< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Well, that certainly sounds like a nice thing to look at and there may
be users who might be interested in playing with it -- but it probably
isn't very wise to advertise too much a build without any sound
support at all!

I'm afraid establishing that it builds on the Mac is really just a
necessary precondition for actually porting the audio/MIDI code. A
possible start for MIDI might be to use the RtMidi support from the
Windows port. For audio, JACK exists on OS/X but unfortunately the
JACK code in RG is dependent on having ALSA as well, which doesn't
exist anywhere but Linux.


Chris

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Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Schindler Karl-Michael — 2012-05-15T21:43:05

Hi,

Success. I just committed the first version of Qt4-mac based rosegarden-12.04 to fink. Thanks for your feedback about resolving the issues, I encountered.

In the end, i needed only the following 3 patches.

1) I had to give LDFLAGS=-L/usr/X11/lib to configure as well as make. Otherwise libX11.dylib is not found. Probably a default on linux, but not on macosx.

2) there is no sha1sum or sha1, but shasum and sha as replacement. I did this by patching configure and passing "SHA1SUM=shasum" to make.

3) Qt4-mac is based on frameworks instead of libraries. I needed to replace this line for the linker in configure, which works fine, if i base rosegarden on Qt4-x11: 

-QT_LIBS="-L$QTLIBDIR -lQtGui -lQtXml -lQtNetwork -lQtCore"
+QT_LIBS="-F$QTLIBDIR -Wl,-framework,QtGui -Wl,-framework,QtXml -Wl,-framework,QtNetwork -Wl,-framework,QtCore"

maybe a switch depending on QTLIBDIR could be added.

The complete package description can be viewed here: http://fink.cvs.sourceforge.net/fink/dists/10.4/stable/main/finki

Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Tom Breton (Tehom — 2012-05-15T18:57:49

I know just enough to be dangerous, but here goes: IIUC we control it by
the HAVE_ALSA macro define.  Somewhere in your makefile, there is

 -DHAVE_ALSA

I do not know how ./configure figures out whether to do that.

Tom Breton (Tehom)



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Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Chris Cannam — 2012-05-15T13:06:32

On 14 May 2012 22:57, Schindler Karl-Michael
<karl-michael.schindler-S0/GAf8tV78< at >public.gmane.org> wrote:

Hello there.

I don't entirely know what Fink is, but I would expect that any build
of Rosegarden for OS/X would just be an ordinary OS/X app, presumably
packaged in a .dmg for installation into the apps folder like any
other.

Rosegarden uses Qt4 for its GUI, which uses Cocoa directly and is
quite easy to package (depending on how many different OS/X versions
one tries to support). With the exception of the audio and MIDI
support and associated libraries, RG is reasonably straightforward to
port to the Mac -- the problem really is the amount of development
work necessary to get any sound support.

As this stage the configure doesn't include any direct support for
doing a sound-less build -- you'd need to hack configure.ac so as to
skip the ALSA/JACK tests and build without HAVE_ALSA and HAVE_LIBJACK.

(As for the other failing configure tests: the only direct reference
to X11 libraries in the code is t

Re: rosegarden on Mac OS X

Schindler Karl-Michael — 2012-05-15T12:03:57

Hi

I made some progress, but still got stuck. For now, I would need to disable ALSA or the relevant sound-IO in the configure step. The way, it was done in an ancient version in fink (--disable-sound) does not work any longer. Any hints, how to achieve it?

Michael Schindler

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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future

Richard Bown — 2012-05-15T09:01:02

Ok well, I'm going to carry on occasionally merging from trunk as I wish and will pop out another Windows build at some point soon.  For the moment, and to make it easier for me to manage, I've created a page:

http://www.xyglo.com/rosegarden-for-windows/

I'll post announcements here and keep monitoring the usual lists but this is a bit easier for me.

R
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Re: Seeking developers for a mac port ofRosegarden

Schindler Karl-Michael — 2012-05-15T07:02:21

Am 15.05.2012 um 02:48 schrieb Krishna Smith:


My experience was the opposite and so I choose Fink and that is, what i know. But actually, the answer is that there is no versus. The main task is to fix the ./configure, make, make install process. Once that works, I will take care of the package description for fink. If someone else has the background for MacPorts, Homebrew or what ever, I will appreciate it, since bug fixes/ patches are usually easy to transfer. As said before, I also feel competent to extend the Makefile for building also a disk image with standalone application, which is what most mac users expect. I did this for UltraStar Deluxe.


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Re: [Rosegarden-user] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future

D. Michael McIntyre — 2012-05-15T07:01:34


That's a perfect description of what we've already experienced some taste of 
with the Windows build.


I'm sure it does.

For my part, it's some mixture of being totally ignorant of how to do anything 
on Windows, and totally unsympathetic to the Windows user who wants to whine 
about free-as-in-beer software.  They're running Windows!  All the best 
commercial stuff with years of professional development behind it is available 
for that platform.

If they're cheap, that's not my problem.  If they're broke, they should 
probably just switch to Linux, and their unwillingness to do that is not my 
problem.

So maybe I am unhelpful, snobby, and arrogant.  I just don't have any use for 
those people.  I dealt with a lot of them when I was a Linux crusader, and I 
fart in their general direction.

rosegarden on Mac OS X

Schindler Karl-Michael — 2012-05-14T21:57:57

Hi,

David Tisdell's advertisement on the mac X11 list dragged me in. He also mentioned my brief trial to build rosegarden on macosx. My main contribution would be setting up and maintain the fink package description. However, i would need support in fixing the configure and make issues. anyone?

My knowledge in autotools is somewhat limited. My knowledge of C and C++ is quite limited. I have some experience to make a port mac-like. My references are maintainership of a couple of fink packages and member of the developer team of Ultrastar Deluxe, a singing game written in Pascal. If the fink package is working, i should be able to extend the make file in order to package a disk image with a stand-alone application, the way most mac users expect software.

I checked the history of fink and found a very old package of rosegarden. The main trick at that time was "--disable-sound". I tried this as a remedy, but it is not a valid option any longer.

so much for tonight.

Michael Schindler aka mischi.
------------

Re: Fwd: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

Chris Cannam — 2012-05-14T21:03:20

I appreciate this argument, and thank you for articulating it well.
But I'm afraid I just don't see the evidence in other applications
that broadening your user base, by porting to other platforms with a
smaller proportion of developers, helps a great deal with development
effort.

I think that the difference between Mixxx and Rosegarden is something
else. It's focus. Mixxx has a very clear purpose, every developer has
pretty much the same focus, and every developer is able to exercise
that purpose very clearly in testing the application. So although
Mixxx has about the same number of active developers as Rosegarden,
they're able to pull it along more efficiently because it's a simpler
and smaller application with a much clearer goal.

Compare this with Audacity, perhaps the world's most widely-used audio
application -- inching along much like Rosegarden does, with a
similarly-sized developer team who spend most of their time
integrating occasional external contributions and trying to fix the
bugs those con

Re: Version control?

D. Michael McIntyre — 2012-05-14T05:25:01


Probably, but maintaining the master repository through some translation layer 
makes about as much sense to me as doing development work on the Windows 
kernel using WINE.  In the world of computing, things always play more nicely 
when you get as close to bare metal as possible, and avoid translation or 
emulation layers.

I don't think I'd want to fool with it.  Even if I'm just paranoid, I'd never 
really trust it, and I'd be blaming every weird problem on the svn-git bridge.

Nah.  I'd still be out, but I want to stress that it wouldn't necessarily be 
the end of the world should that come to pass, and if some considerable 
majority of people interested in doing work here wanted to switch, switching 
could happen.

Re: New controller commands

D. Michael McIntyre — 2012-05-14T05:08:27


Sounds cool.  I've taken note of your messages on this and will check it out 
in due course.  Carry on!

Re: Version control?

Peter Howard — 2012-05-14T00:19:10

2c from a very minor contributor.

On Fri, 2012-05-11 at 18:13 +0100, Chris Cannam wrote:


As someone who uses both Mercurial and Git in their day job, there's
very little difference in terms of functionality between them.  95% of
it comes down to personal preference, and how you like to use CM.  Each
of them makes it slightly harder/easier to work in a certain way, but
it's just a matter of degrees.

I personally prefer Mercurial but wouldn't particularly care about a
change either way.  I would prefer either to Subversion primarily as
what private development I do these days is on the train (when I'm not
having a multi-week "discussion" with Lenovo about whether my dead
laptop actually has a warranty or not) and so am not always connected.
And Subversion was never designed to work disconnected to the central
server.

Michael - I'm pretty sure you can put a subversion gateway on top of
either of Git or Mercurial, which would allow you to keep working with
the tool you're comfortable with.



--------------

Re: New controller commands

Tom Breton (Tehom — 2012-05-13T23:18:31

OK, I pushed the controller changes to new branch edit_controllers.  A
more detailed explanation of my changes:

New submenu "controllers".  I copied PitchBendSequenceDialog into there,
but also left it on the edit menu, to be conservative.

New command to set controllers, analogous to PitchBendSequenceDialog.  In
fact it uses PitchBendSequenceDialog with a new parameter.

Another new command to place one default controller on every note in a
selection.  It works nicely with PitchBendSequenceDialog:
PitchBendSequenceDialog leaves the pitch still bent - guess there's no
good way to know when to unbend it - but now you can just select the
following note and Alt-N P.  Requires that some ruler be active so it
knows what controller or pitchbend to make.

Another new command to apply EventParameterDialog to selected controllers,
just like it works for velocities.  Works on a selection on a controller
ruler.

Cut and copy commands that work on a selection on the active controller
ruler.  Paste is on the menu too, b

Fwd: [Rosegarden-user] Rosegarden's Future

Cláudio Pinheiro — 2012-05-13T22:56:20

I'm interested in a Mac port, and I may help with coding.
Most of my coding experience involves portable code between Linux, Windows,
ARM and microcontrollers, and I develop for Mac as a hobby.
Having said that, I believe the biggest problem I see today in Rosegarden
is the following mentality:
"I'm a Linux user and I want a tool to help me making music on Linux.". So
Rosegarden is chosen because it's the most comprehensive DAW for the Linux
platform, making the choice to use it subordinated to the choice of which
operating system one wants to use. As the Linux-using musicians
demographics is a tiny one is somewhat natural to expect that Rosegarden's
visibility is minimal. And as Linux-using musicians programmers with free
time and interest are even rarer, things pile up on the TODO queue (111
open bugs and 144 open feature requests).
Let's take the opposite example: Mixxx. Multiplatform, Qt-based,
low-latency DJ mixing program, runs on Linux, Windows and Mac OS X,
GPL-licensed, free in App Store, has 800+ r